SARASOTA, Fla. – Orioles chairman and CEO John Angelos granted a rare and lengthy interview with beat writers this morning next to the bullpen area on the back fields at the Ed Smith Stadium complex.
The session lasted 37 minutes and covered courses such as payroll, the work toward a new stadium lease, how Angelos, executive vice president/general manager Mike Elias and manager Brandon Hyde are here “for the long haul," how there's no intention of changing principal ownership, how the Orioles “are always going to be in Baltimore,” the conclusion of his family’s litigation, and a promise to share the financials with the media in spring training.
The workout became secondary.
The scrum was unplanned and just evolved. Angelos and wife Margaret Valentine were visiting the complex when approached by reporters. This was the fourth time that he spoke with a group of Baltimore media members since Elias’ introductory presser in November 2018.
Angelos declined a five-year extension on the current stadium lease that expires Dec. 31. He expressed confidence that a new and substantial deal will get done over the summer.
“I have no doubt that we’ll relatively rapidly move toward the renewal of the private-public partnership for the long term,” he said. “I would be very disappointed if I’m not able to work with the governor (Wes Moore) and his team, who, as you know, he just appointed new board members on Friday, a new chairman (Craig Thompson) to make that happen in the next six months. Sooner?
“I’d love to have that as an All-Star break gift for everybody, really, in the community. … That’s always been one of the things I committed to and I have no intention of not seeing it happen.”
Angelos disagreed that a new lease agreement has taken a long time and noted how renewing a 30-year-old document is a minor sidelight to the community development of economic potential, a public-private partnership. The lease, he said, is a “very narrow part,” especially with plans for a commercial real estate development on the site. The vision of a live, work, play 365, as it’s promoted, “a huge step forward for the next iteration of Camden Yards.”
“I don’t think it’s taken long,” he said. “I think it’s been a great 30 years where we’ve driven 75 million people, and the Ravens have generated another 20 million. When you get 100 million visitors out of a 30-year relationship, I don’t know if that’s taken too long. I think you should be deliberate and thoughtful.”
Among the other highlights, some of which I’ve edited for length:
On the family’s legal situation being resolved:
“I think those things are distractions and it’s unfortunate whenever they arise, but all good things going forward now and I’m really confident what Mike and Brandon are doing, what the management team’s doing, and I think those things are as they should be in the rear view mirror and receding.”
On Elias’ contract length:
“This an entertainment and community activity. It’s sports, it’s media, it’s supposed to be fun and a distraction. A lot of companies don’t talk about their human resources issues and their employment contracts. I will tell you guys this: “I’m here for the long haul, Mike is here for the long haul, Brandon is here for the long haul. We are all fully vested. We’re not going anywhere and nobody’s a short-timer, nobody is expiring in a year or two years or anything like that.
“I hope you guys respect that, it’s just not great policy for me to talk about people’s personnel relationships, but we’re all here under contract long term.”
On when we can expect liftoff for payroll:
“We committed, as you guys know, in 2018-19 to a full rebuild, not have a foot in every camp, take the best baseball advice, and we committed to that and we’ve done it. I don’t think we’re rebuilding anymore, to Mike’s thought. I’m glad we were in a full rebuild because it was what was recommended and was the right thing. It was also, we were fortunate that as the world hit a pandemic, we were stripped down to that full. I mean, that was just good luck, really, in that sense to not have a lot of payroll. Teams that had a lot of payroll were relying on live attendance to pay for that were in a much worse situation. We were much better situated, just lucky, really.
“Was the intention to not invest during the rebuild? No. We continue to invest. As you guys know, we didn’t spend money on international free agents, and we spent the maximum every year of the rebuild and we’re going to keep doing that. If we could spend more, we would. It’s capped by the league rules. We’ve obviously invested and signed, not only drafted, but signed, all or substantially all of our players in the domestic draft, which is what we ought to be doing. We’ve invested in facilities in the Dominican and here, and I anticipate we’re going to invest more this year, next year. You see all the technology here that I don’t begin to understand, but these guys say is an important part of it, and we’ve invested in that. We’re just laying in foundational dollars for all of those things – international, domestic, technology, facilities. This facility is going to be invested it. The minor league, we’re thinking about some interesting things to renew this facility, the stadium.
“Now payroll, I think there’s a range there that Mike and his team have to determine. Do I have a role in that? Really, only to make sure that their recommendations are being properly funded. We’re probably not going to have, nor is any other middle or small market team, the payroll of the Mets and Dodgers, or even the Red Sox, or certainly the Yankees. But that’s not an Oriole thing. It’s a small, middle market team in this economic system. This is not football, this is not basketball. In a lot of respects it would be great if it were. You see in other leagues where Oklahoma City can spend at the same level as the New York Knicks playing at Madison Square Garden.
“We’re not there yet in baseball, but we’re going to make all these capital investments and stay the course and we’ll see where the payroll goes. You guys know the numbers better than I do. You’ve got examples like Tampa, you’ve got examples like Cleveland, you’ve got examples like Milwaukee, and they’re all different payrolls. That’s for others to determine. If you’re asking me if we have the resources, we absolutely have the resources and we plan to keep moving the payroll up, but we’ve got to keep making these long-term capital investments. We do think they’re working, we do think the full rebuild was the right thing and is working, and we’re going to keep investing in that.
“We’re not only where we are today, but over the next five or eight years, we could keep this going and I think we can keep it going. Not just a five-year cycle, hopefully a self-sustaining more than five, eight, 10 year. That’s the goal and I think with the people we’ve recruited and brought in on the baseball group and in the business group … That’s another thing. We have a very small staff and we’re going to keep building that.
“More good times ahead and definitely more investment.”
On what it says about the club’s aim when Rays and Brewers never won a World Series and Cleveland hasn’t since 1948:
“Well, we’re aiming for sustained success. I think what you see in a place like Tampa, they have had sustained success. That’s a great testament to Stuart Sternberg’s leadership, his partnership group. And he’s had different presidents of baseball ops, different GMs over time, and they’ve stayed relevant and important and competitive in a very difficult environment. Obviously, with a new ballpark, it would seem they would only do better and probably their payrolls go up. But I am encouraged that Tampa has done what they’ve done. That’s a great thing to aspire to. I would be disappointed if we’re not the next Tampa, which means being sustainably competitive and relevant.
“We’re fortunate to have a great venue right now. They don’t have that. Hopefully they will. But I’d like to be thought of as competent and capable and professional, as I think all of us view an organization like Tampa. That’s an aspiration and I think we’re going to get there.”
On whether payroll would model Tampa Bay’s:
“No, I didn’t say that. I don’t expect payroll to model any particular team. I’m just giving you guys a range of small, middle market teams. So, could payroll be double or triple what it is, or could it be over $100 million? Yeah. We’re not there yet.
"We have a very young team that's overachieved and overperformed because of the great work of our baseball folks. It's not my job to predict payroll. My job is to make sure that the community partnerships are sustained, and I think all of that comes after that. First, I have to do the concerts, then we have to do the PPP. We’ve got the legislation passed initially but there’s more to do there. And we’ve got to perform as these guys are performing on the field, meaning Brandon and Mike and the players. But it’s not for me to sit back and project payroll. … You’re asking me to look three, four, five years ahead. All of those scenarios are possible.
“I’m definitely not saying it must be lower than something arbitrary.”
On whether the team will stay in Angelos family hands:
“There is absolutely no plan to change the partnership group or to change the managing partnership structure that we have. To the extent that other people would say, ‘Hey, I like what they’re doing in Baltimore, I like that Camden Yards is going to be part of a renewed public-public partnership with the city and the state and I want to be part of that.’ Well, sure. Why wouldn’t you?
“The partners that my family, my father put together 30 years ago - many, not all, some have transitioned out – but it’s been a tremendous amount of continuity. But you want to have a next generation of people coming in, too, and you want them to be excited. It would be nice if we could attract strategic people who care about Baltimore, who care about the way we’re doing this now, who care about the example Camden Yards set, and want to be a part of it. Not necessary or a requisite, but we’re open to it. But there is no plan to change or transition out of what we have today.”
On whether majority ownership is what he’s most focused on:
“Everybody that’s in is welcome to stay in another 30 years, and I think we’re proud of that, that we’ve had continuity. We’ve had partners like Pam Shriver, like Barry Levinson and others who aren’t as well known. … My only comment about that is, certainly if somebody approached, just like a media publication that you guys are part of, if somebody came in and said, ‘I really like what you’re doing and I want to be part of that,’ particularly if they had a synergy, if they were involved in, say, media or entertainment or music or real estate development, you name it, why wouldn’t you have that conversation?
“I wouldn’t say we’re focused on any one thing, but I would say there’s not a plan to change the principal ownership or the managing partnership structure that we have, and there would really be no reason to that I can think of, and I wouldn’t want to do that. I think we want to see this through, take this public-private partnership to a whole other place, and that’s what we owe to the people that created Camden Yards. We didn’t create it. I hope we’ve been good stewards of the facility.
“My job’s not here. There’s other people who do this. My job is to, how do we make that 365 live, work, play? How do we make this thing a catalyst for, speak aspirationally about what Baltimore and Maryland and this Orioles/Ravens city and state partnership can be? … I’m not critical to it. We’re all dispensable. But I think I can play an important role in it and try to move it forward faster, and hopefully effectively.”
On whether Angelos still intends to share club's financials with media?
“I knew we’d be here in Florida, so there’s no warehouse to take you to. … When I say ‘let’s open the books,’ and I would share with you guys an overview, which I intend to do and I intend to do that while we’re here in spring training. I am going to do what I said I would do within our conversation. I’m going to sit down with you, and all of you … Can I show you the date that Mike Elias’ contract expires? No, but your editors and your publisher and your executives don’t do that your employment contracts, either. That’s just a standard that isn’t applicable in any business, and I can’t be held to that standard. But I can hold myself to a much higher standard than I think we have in the past and I think what you’re asking you’d like to have.
“I’m not going to be able to pull out the payrolls and show you everything financially, but I can provide you a full picture for the business, I can provide you certainly a picture for what our objectives are on the field. But really, I want you to understand, at least my view, whether you agree with it or not, on the context of our vision off the field and in our community. I think if you don’t have that part of it, you’re not going to understand where I’m coming from or where the organization’s trying to go, and I want you to understand that. So, if it means sitting down and putting up on a white board, ‘This is the club, this is how it all fits together and where we’re trying to go,’ I’ll do that.
“I said we were going to rebuild the team and we’d do it a certain way, and Mike and Brandon, they’ve done that. There’s no question they’ve done that, right? We went from bottom of the league to top on (research and development), on talent in the minor leagues. We obviously had a 31-game turnaround. Now, we all know this year could, who knows what will happen this year? That’s fine. But we’ve done what we’ve done. I said we would bring in major music concerts, and we did that.
“When I say something, like I’m going to sit down with you guys, explain the business from my perspective, I’m going to do it. I’m not going to say it and walk away from it. I couldn’t do it the next day, but here we are, and maybe we’ll just substitute that building for the warehouse. More to come on that.”
On MASN airing only four exhibition games:
“There are networks that do greater numbers than we do. ... Spring training games, it is a business decision, a judgement call. It doesn’t mean, by the way, that I know the way we do it today is right. … Spring training games are relatively low-rated games, they’re very low-rated games. Most of them are in the afternoons on weekdays. The only professional sport that’s really still doing anything on afternoons and weekdays is probably horse racing. It’s a tough putt. It doesn’t mean you should or shouldn’t do it, but it’s hard to make it pay.
“Now, the counter argument is, spending is the cost of doing business and it will help promote the teams, it will help promote the game. That’s a reasonable argument. We’ve historically made the decision to focus on fewer games in the spring and pour more of our production into the course of the season.
“We will, I hope, do more games. When you have two baseball teams, right there you do over 300 live events, and we do 600 live pre- and post-game shows. That’s at or near the first or second or third RSN in the country and has been for 15 years. … Should that come at the expense of spring training? I don’t know. It’s certainly a valid question and criticism.”
On whether the MASN dispute can be solvable after the latest hearing in March over distribution of money, maybe in the next month or two:
“I think it’s resolvable today, tomorrow - I’m oversimplifying — separate and apart from that appellate track. My goal, as you might be totally surprised to hear, is to never be around any litigation again. You don’t need litigation to solve problems, you just need good partners. We can sort that out and solve it very quickly. Before that, after that, to your point, yeah, I think that’s all possible.”
On how the Orioles could use the $600 million from the state for stadium improvements:
“The things you see around the league, amenities, improved seating areas, possibly injection into the live, work, play, but it’s probably needed for the two venues. Audio-video systems. We’ve had two scoreboards, two audio-visual systems, in the history of Camden Yards. … You will have to do these things. So there will be things like that and then there will be kind of nice-to-haves that are also contemplated in say X-hundred million dollars of that. But, no, we’re not down to that specific level.”
